I posted a comment over at John Scalzi’s website that piqued my curiosity enough to ask the question to everyone:
* Do you love/hate/not_care_about anti-lock brakes on your vehicle?
* Also, where do you currently live, and where did you live when you started driving?
I ask, because I live in northern Michigan, and we have icy roads all winter. Anti-lock brakes tend to annoy the crap out of me. Not because I’m a crazy driver that feels the need to lock up my tires and slide around like an idiot (although, I admit at times that’s kinda fun). I learned to drive with regular old brakes, and I tend to perform best when I have a “feel” for the road conditions, and can apply the stopping force that is appropriate.
I find that anti-lock brakes assume I’m an idiot, and go PBPBPBPBPPBPBPBPBBPBBPPBPPPBPBB, stealing any actual braking skills from me and forcing me to hope the van knows what it’s doing in time to stop. I’ve had this discussion with people that assure me it’s physically impossible for a human being to stop better than anti-lock brakes can. Well, I say pshaw.
How about you? Do you love anti-lock brakes on icy roads? Am I just and idjit?
UPDATE: Interestingly, this post just received a visitor from a computer user at daimlerchrysler.com. Welcome. 
#1 by Mark on January 6, 2009 - 9:19 am
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I live and learned to drive in Iowa. I learned to drive before anti-lock brakes and in fact, I’ve only ever owned a single car with anti-lock brakes (my wife’s current car). I too find it disconcerting when the anti-lock brakes kick in. However from my understanding of how anti-lock brakes work and how one should react to icy roads, I tend to believe the anti-lock brakes do a better job of stopping the car than I can.
#2 by Wolfger on January 6, 2009 - 9:22 am
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My rational side says that anti-lock brakes are a wonderful thing that save lives (and money). But I have to say I agree with you 100% in feeling that the more control I have, the safer I feel, and I hate electronic devices programmed by some total stranger of unknown intelligence level taking control away from me. I want everybody else on the road to have anti-lock brakes, but I’m glad that my vehicle does not have them.
#3 by Michael on January 6, 2009 - 9:29 am
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I learned to drive in Detroit without anti-lock brakes, and never managed to crash (though I did once slide into a curb and bork my wheel alignment in Dayton, OH).
I now live in Minneapolis, where the roads stay icy much longer than Detroit since it never warms enough to melt it off. I very much appreciate anti-lock brakes up here, but I wish they were a little less sensitive on our current vehicle. The slightest slip and they go sputtering away. I still catch myself attempting to pump the brake and throwing off the anti-lock’s rhythm.
#4 by Janiece on January 6, 2009 - 9:32 am
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Well, I don’t think you’re an idjit, but I learned to drive in Colorado, and live here now.
I like anti-lock brakes, although I have to say the first time they engaged, it scared the crap out of me.
#5 by Shawn Powers on January 6, 2009 - 9:33 am
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Michael:
Perhaps that’s part of my problem. Our current Dodge Caravan (2007) seems to engage the anti-lock system as soon as you touch the brake pedal. When stopping, I basically have no choice but to mash the pedal and pray.
Even apart from pumping the brakes, a calm driver can usually “feel” when the brakes are actually grabbing versus locking up. With our current vehicle, like I mention before, it just goes crazy sooner than I’d like.
#6 by Michael on January 6, 2009 - 9:40 am
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@Shawn – Mine’s a 2007 Dodge Caliber so maybe they got overzealous that year. I previously leased a Pontiac Vibe and its anti-lock brakes were much smoother, only engaging when I was really in a dangerous slide. Caliber’s kick in when I slow to a stop sign at 5mph.
#7 by mattw on January 6, 2009 - 9:44 am
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My car doesn’t have them and my wife’s does. I forgot about that the first time I was driving her car in icy conditions this winter and the anti-lock breaks kicked in. Freaked me out.
I prefer no anti-lock breaks. I know how to handle my car and how/when to apply the breaks.
The last time I drove my wife’s car and it was icy I did my best to pump the breaks and avoid using the anti-lock system.
#8 by Steve Buchheit on January 6, 2009 - 9:47 am
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I learned to drive in Ohio and I’m still here (“still here” he cried to the gods in their temples). The only time I’ve almost crashed was using anti-lock breaks. No I didn’t pump them once I felt them pulse, I just laid on hard. Fortunately, the left hand shoulder was as wide as a lane and I was able to get in there before hitting the car in front of me (went about half the length of the car in front of me). I’ve driven through the most horrendous weather all my life and I’ve only had one accident, a joker backed into me as I was gassing up my car (he was using the minimart inside and “lost control” aka was an idiot with a truck that shouldn’t be on the road).
#9 by Candy on January 6, 2009 - 10:01 am
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I’ve never driven in anything frozen or that even looked frozen. I have only had the anti-lock brakes engage a few times, mainly when the road was slick with rain/oil, freaked me out. I actually called my husband (those that know him are laughing – he knows about as much as I do about cars) because I thought the car was broken down.
Having said that, Ummm… I don’t care. I live in Austin. If it even LOOKS like it might snow/ice (which is basically never) people stock up with Chef Boyardee and don’t go anywhere… of course, there’s always that one idiot..
#10 by Konstantin on January 6, 2009 - 10:34 am
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My friend drives an old Mitsu without ABS and recently tried to stop on a sheet of ice in Chicago, skated for about 60 feet and hit another car.
#11 by David on January 6, 2009 - 11:06 am
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I live and grew up here in Canada, in Newfoundland, where we get upwards of 8 meters of snow a year and where snow covers the ground for up to 5-6 months. (extreme cases but still happens). I grew up learning to drive on snow-covered roads where there was little traction and my car didn’t have ABS at the time. However, my current car does have ABS and it does stop better than I could. ABS doesn’t do anything magical, it just detects the tires slipping and lets off the brakes and then re-applies them rapidly, a lot more rapidly then any human could. ABS does the same thing that you’re doing with brake pumping, but does it faster and more accurately. If your car is engaging ABS all the time when braking, even when there’s traction, it might need to be looked at because the sensor is probably malfunctioning. My father’s truck was doing that for a while and had to be fixed.
In any case, my vote is for ABS. It may take away your feeling of control, but it does a better job and it’s an absolute necessity for people who don’t know how to drive on ice and snow, as far as I’m concerned.
Cheers.
#12 by Jason Wertenberger on January 6, 2009 - 11:31 am
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My biggest problem with anti-lock breaks is that they have failed in every vehicle I’ve ever owned.
I’ve had three Ford trucks (one Ranger and two Bronco II’s) which had rear anti-lock breaks. In all three I had to tape over the idiot light warning me of their failure. In all cases mechanics said there was nothing wrong.
My current vehicle is a 1995 Toyota Tacoma, and guess what? The anti-lock breaks are out.
#13 by Nathan on January 6, 2009 - 11:41 am
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I’m with you Shawn. Not a big fan.
I learned to drive in Florida, so no snow-driving until I was in college in Boston. I learned to drive in snow with no automatic brakes and that’s what I still prefer.
#14 by MWT on January 6, 2009 - 5:53 pm
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I learned to drive in Indiana, but don’t believe I’ve ever driven a car with antilock brakes (or at least, if there was ever a rental car with them, there was never a situation where they needed to engage). Therefore my opinion would be useless.
My favorite story of a car backing into me: we were at a red light, and he saw a friend on the sidewalk he wanted to talk to – so he tried to back up to them, not realizing that I was right behind him and therefore in the way. Turned out that he was a cop, and we were in front of the police office. I bet he didn’t hear the end of that one for a while.
#15 by MOM on January 6, 2009 - 10:24 pm
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I live in Northern Michigan too. I learned to drive almost before paved roads in a suberb of Detroit. (I don’t really remember when there wern’t paved roads), any way MY new car has antilock brakes and on a couple occasions I have put the (brake) peddle to the mettle hoping the thing really did know what it was doing as I find it very hard to believe if I had had control I would have nearly slid out into oncoming traffic, even my husband said they, the anti lock brakes do it faster and more effeciently than a person could. As I said I have doubts. I tell myself, you better go slower cause whether you or it really do or could do it better, I can’t override them and I only just made the first payment. I like the car and I think it’s only icy winter roads we’ll have this issue.
#16 by Brad on January 7, 2009 - 8:35 am
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I have noticed that it all depends on the car. I used to have a Chrysler Concord that had great antilock brakes. They would only kick in hard if I was mashing the pedal.
My girlfriends car (2000 Sunfire) is the exact opposite. Her brakes don’t seem to pulse much if you need to stop hard. If your just trying to take an snowy corner at low speed they lock up and you slide off the road.
My trusty beater 94 Shadow has no antilock brakes. The brakes are also bad since I don’t change things on my car till they break. I just keep a few car lengths back drive at a reasonable speed.
#17 by Mike on January 10, 2009 - 6:01 pm
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I’ve a 2000 Sunfire, and a couple of weeks ago the Abs light came on. I thought at first a weight sensor had kicked in to tell me to start working off my added holiday pounds, but it was the brake system. Rear hub sensor $300-350 to replace. That repair is not in my budget now, so I’ll try driving old school for a while – watch the conditions, keep my distance, pump the brakes if I slide. We do have a lot of snow here in Ottawa Ontario but I learned to drive 46 years ago up north – going fine so far.
#18 by Karen on January 10, 2009 - 8:31 pm
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I was driving on snowy roads today when I tried to brake. The car was fine until I was almost at a stop, then the brakes made a rub, rub, rub sound while the car sort of stuttered, bumped to a stop scaring me half to death that the car was not going to stop. It happened 3 or 4 times on the way home. Is this my antilock brake system or is something wrong with my brakes. I appreciate any help you can offer.
#19 by debi on January 12, 2009 - 12:20 pm
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the abs on my 2001 dodge 1500 don’t fucking stop you ,they slide you right into what ever’s in front of you, I FUCKING HATE THEM
#20 by Melanie on January 14, 2009 - 9:29 am
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I have 2 vehicles, both with ABS. I also grew up learning to drive without them. Living in Indiana, we had our share of ice and snow during the winter. I have not had so many ‘close calls’ as I have had with these ‘braking systems’. I had better control of my vehicle w/o the car doing the work for me. I CAN’T STAND these braking systems. I dread seeing snow/ice…not b/c I am not capable of driving on it, but I am not comfortable with how ‘my car’ drives on it. Thank god for technology!!!!!!!!!
#21 by Mike on January 14, 2009 - 5:06 pm
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Still doing fine without ABS, I haven’t noticed any sliding when I brake. I drive more cautiously on snow/ice anyways, rather than pretend it’s summer and assume technology will save me.
Pingback: Anti-Lock Brakes, And Why I Hate Them « The Brain of Shawn
#22 by Laura on January 4, 2010 - 1:42 pm
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I’ve never been able to stop my car on a snowy, icy, or even wet leaves condition! I can’t stand the anti lock breaks and don’t understand why they were ever invented! I just called the dealership to see if there was a recall on my car and they are charging me 95.00 just to look at my car. Came across this thread to realize that’s just how anti lock breaks work. I’m going to die in this car because I CAN’T STOP IT IN WINTER CONDITIONS!
#23 by Stephanie on January 27, 2010 - 8:57 am
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I just got my first car with ABS about two months ago, and am finally realizing that what I thought was damage to my new car is actually the ABS system kicking in. Scared the hell out of me each of the three times it’s happened, and I don’t like that it takes far greater distances to come to a stop. I drove with regular brakes for years in ice and snow and never had a wheel lock up … now three times in two months. I found this page by trying to research if that “crunching” noise and violent pedal jumping were indications of brake damage. I guess I have no choice but to get used to it … intellectually, I suppose the system brakes better than I can, but … yeah, I really hate ‘em.
#24 by Joel on January 28, 2010 - 12:04 pm
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I learned to drive in the mountains of Colorado. My wife and I now live in the mountains of northern New Mexico and daily drive three miles of steep dirt road, complete with several switchbacks to and from work. We both think the ABS is inferior on snow packed and/or icy roads, when compared to our reflexive non-ABS stopping skills. I finally decided to compare the difference in my own personal vehicle (Forester) by pulling the ABS fuse … HUGE improvement! I am able to stop again when our steep and curvy road is snow packed and slippery. I think the design engineers need to expand their test parameters and do more comparative analysis. I don’t doubt that ABS will help stop a car more quickly when it is going in a straight line and stopping a panic situation where the brakes are locked up on a dry or just wet road surface. But this is not the case on snow packed roads. I have found that I can actually improve the performance of the ABS on snowy roads by pumping the brakes, even on level roadways. Sometimes the public is “sold” a product that is over-hyped … think: Swine Flu Vaccine and Global Warming. I will probably reinstall the ABS fuse on my car, but only after there is no chance of snowfall. And I am going to pull the fuse on my wife’s Toyota as well. She is a good driver and I am now confident her report will mirror mine. Pulling the ABS fuses will just be a part of winterizing our vehicles from now on. Thanks for opening this topic up to discussion. Now I know that if I am a nut, I’m not the only one!
#25 by Jim on February 10, 2010 - 1:15 am
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Joel – I completely agree. We have an 2004 Highlander with Blizzaks and If you can keep the abs from coming on you stop WAY FASTER on icy conditions. Very noticeable when going down a hill. I’m sick of them.
#26 by RickCrain on February 12, 2010 - 10:55 am
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Born in MI near Detroit, live in MN since before I learned to drive more than 30 years ago. I practice on frozen lakes so I know how my vehicle will respond.
I have a 2000 Chev Silverado 4×4. The ABS has long pissed me off with its over sensitive setting. About a month ago it started going off as I come to a stop light, on dry pavement, going less than 10 mph and medium to light peddle pressure. This almost caused a crash in a parking lot because I had trouble getting it to stop before hitting the car in the slot in front of me. I probably should have it looked at, but would rather figure out how to disable the ABS with out FUBARing the breaks all together.
I know when ABS is working properly, it will stop a vehicle sooner than a human can, but my truck is not right even though the dealer said some time back, it was all with in spec.
#27 by LIsa Wilson on March 10, 2010 - 11:10 pm
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So, it turns out I am NOT crazy! RickCrain, you are having the same freakishness I am…less than 10 mph, coming to a very slow stop while parallel parking in DRY conditions and the brake pedal pulsates wildly while my Chevy Tahoe feels like it’s going to lurch forward. Very scary. I hate ABS and want my little Hyundai back! If you figure out a way to disable, do share! My ABS kicks in more than it doesn’t; it hasn’t snowed in weeks and the roads are dry, dry dry!